Supermoan: Movie Moan's Ultimate Superman Retrospective Episode 6 - 'Superman Returns' (2006)
Fri, June 7, 2013 You can watch this week's show on Blip:
Or on Youtube:
"He was gone for five years, she waited a week or two in."
It is the 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' of Superman films. It is at once a crazy sequel/remake/retcon hybrid which drowns in plot holes and slavish devotion to the previous movies, but it is also the completely unique vision of one filmmaker. It is both genius and frustrating, touching yet cold, richly thematic yet never hits the marks it truly needs to resonate. It tugs at the heartstrings but never makes us soar. It is a film of infinite contradiction. It is 'Superman Returns' and it demands a double length episode just to cover all of it.
Just like our first piece on 'Superman The Movie', this week's episode isn't so much about laughs and nostalgia, but a thought provoking analysis on what the character of Superman means to us and what we expect from a modern cinematic interpretation.
And just like that first discussion, we've brought back the Supermoan all stars to cover it; Robert Meyer Burnett, who was on the set of 'Superman Returns' every day to bring us all of the behind the scenes video content, and who has the perspective of what the film should have been, and what the sequel could have been; Justin Korthof, whose life was changed when he got the opportunity to play host to Bryan Singer's web blogs in the build up to the release of the film on BlueTights.net; and of course the never ending battle for truth, justice, and all that stuff is fought once again by Randall Maynard, Jamie Williams, and myself.
I really hope you enjoy this one cause I've worked on it for so long that I can't tell if it's good anymore.
Download the audio only MP3 version right here:
Reader Comments (10)
I think this is probably the crown jewel in the Supermoan line-up so far. Excellent work, Phil (and everybody who participated in the recording session, of course). You guys approached the movie with as even-handed a touch as possible, and listening here actually helped me clarify my rather complicated feelings towards this film. Coming out of the theater, I enjoyed the film but didn’t love it, and then over the next few years I grew to like it less and less. But just within the last year or so I’ve started to come around to appreciating its introspective qualities a lot more than I did upon initial release. It’s not a perfect film, clearly, but I think its more soulful and thoughtful nature will keep it worthy of discussion and re-examination as the years go on.
Great discussion, been looking forward to hearing about this movie the most.
Jaimie really should've relented on that point of Lex's main motive, clear evidence that this was about real estate again but he kept saying no.
It's about real estate in the sense that Luthor was going to leverage his mastery of Kryptonian technology into money and power, sure, but what was really driving the character was his anger and resentment towards Superman and his thirst for revenge. One of the key threads of the movie is how the characters relate to the past and how they relate to the future. Luthor is given a second chance and squanders it because his ego won't let him let go.
PS Is anyone else having problems with the audio-only link? Is it possible to get that fixed?
@Zark Meiba
This problem rears its head every blue moon. It's not loading for Firefox browsers. But it works fine for Internet Explorer, Google Chrome, etc. Working on it and I apologize for the inconvenience.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll snag it with another browser.
@Zark, try going to your Firefox browser and updating all your plug-ins if you haven't already. I couldn't get Hulu to work in Firefox and discovered my Silverlight plug-in needed an update. Click on the Firefox down arrow, click on Add-ons, then plug-ins and you'll see a notification if any of your flash or other media plug-ins is out of date. Remember to refresh your browser after you're done updating. Hope that helps.
@Phil, et al, I enjoyed this episode but I have a confession to make: I never saw Superman Returns. Aside from the fact that I consider Christopher Reeve "my" Superman, it wasn't getting good reviews from the people I know who went to see so I passed. And I'll probably get banned for admitting this, but I don't think I'll see Man of Steel either, at least not in theaters. I just...I grew up with the Donner movies and I have no desire to see them redone in any way. I don't mind that they're being rebooted, I just don't care to see them. (I did watch a few episodes of Smallville though). But to me, the Donner movies, despite their many, many flaws, are the most enjoyable superhero movies there are and no other superhero movies since then have made me feel what those made me feel (except Supergirl and Superman which were both crappy) - not the Raimi Spiderman series, not Avengers, not even Nolan's Batman. So, yeah, I'll likely bow out on Man of Steel for the time being. Which isn't to say I may not catch it on dvd or on tv one day.
FINALLY
I get around to listening/watching the MM Supey Returns retrospective, and it is by far the best of the bunch.
It is interesting to me that there are some intended call-outs to the Donner work as well as comics origins - something which Returns takes a lot of unfair heat for - Ironic that there's a Star Trek movie out right now which is getting heaps of unwarranted praise for doing the exact same stuff! I generally don't mind a wink here or there, or a 'shout out' to a fanbase, but when it goes on and on...it gets hokey. I had mixed reactions on Star Trek Into Darkness, but...I'm trying to remember my reactions to Superman Returns. What I can remember is that the nods to Supermans 1 and 2 didn't bother me. I also recall thinking that if they were going to go all out and cast Brandon to look like Chris Reeve, then why Kate Bosworth who doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to Margot Kidder? Now Parker Posey, on the other hand DOES have something "Kidder" lookish about her. Posey's character is a bit odd, and you are all spot on...a pointless character. She's not even much of a vixen.
I have a theory on Superkid. Oh man how I wish it could have been brought up - y'all know me and my outside of the box, or this case, crystal thinking. Yes, in Supey 2 they did the deed while he was depowered. But...when Supey got his powers back and "tricked" Zod in the Fortress...could the "ray" have done something to Lois' womb? That is Kryptonian DNA in her, and it was "safe" inside her body, but it had a reverse effect. We'll never know for sure now...
LOVE the Brainiac plot that was unfolding but man that would have been a doozy to set up. If Man Of Steel is successful (and I'm very sure it will be) I hope in the follow up they give the masses either Brianiac or Bizarro. I really do.
Two things about the 'Moan ep here though.
1- I'm surprised that Keri Russell wasn't considered to be Lois Lane after those auditions. It was something I didn't know or had forgotten about. Russell, like Posey is more "Kidder" ish again...and man...the more I think of it, the more comes back to me. I HATED I HATED I really honest to God HATED Kate Bosworth! Now I remember! I should thank you ----but I won't. Maybe it also had to do with the lack of payoff for the Lane character.....no. I HATED Ms. Bosworth. I liked her in Blue Crush. That much I know. So...what the hell happened to Keri Russell?
2- I wonder if there should have been a 'stinger' and Brainiac was a teaser...or off on the moon, Mr. Mytzlplk was having one big laugh...No seriously. I agree. With comics fans, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. You can't please everyone.
okay there is a
3- Movie Blog archives w/ John Campa, Doug Nagy and Darren Connelly! Oh, good days...
Wow! Great podcast - a little stunned that in over 3 hours of SuperMan Returns discussion very little was around the highlight section for me - the plane/shuttle rescue sequence. The only time the movie really soared for me.
Excellent discussion gents. Tip my hat to all of you and Phil for putting this all together.
Superman Returns - as Rob said will never be a reference point for the next wave of filmmakers - because of the continuity issues to the previous films. I really liked Ruth's performance - especially the toned down doofiness of his Clark Kent.
Mope MOS answers all your hopes and wishes. Everything I have seen about it - with the exception of Cavil - has me intrigued to see it. Especially Crowe and Costner and surprisingly Zimmer's score.
@Brett Blake
And that just strengthens Jamie's argument on how the film will age over time....and you have't even see 'Man Of Steel' yet. Thanks for the comments.
@AdamK
If we'd kept all of that argument in the show, it would have been an hour longer.......and I'd still be working on it, and probably dead.
@Zark
I love the way you're saying that because it totally makes sense for this version of Lex. Like so many things in the film, he just needed to let the audience know that's what his plan was.
@Shelly
The whole crew here loves you. We would never ban you. But you have to see 'Man Of Steel' in theatres. You can wait for a week until things die down. You can go to a matinee if you like. But these are movies made to be experienced in theatres. Don't you wish you'd been able to see 'Superman The Movie' and 'Superman II' with a crowd (I'm assuming you didn't)? What if you love the new film? Don't you want to remember where you were when you saw it for the first time, and who you were with? I know I'm going to. Take a chance on the new.
@Darren
It's going to sound crazy given that I have been crying for Brainiac to be in one of the movies for years. But if what I suspect about how 'Man Of Steel' ends is true, it has to be Lex for the next one. I will expand upon this when I come out of the film, if I'm right.
@Lou
You're right. Even in the rough record we didn't touch on it much. It was good. That's all there is to say really. Who's Ruth by the way? :)
@Phil, awww, thanks so much, I feel so flattered and loved. :) I said the banning comment mostly jokingly btw, so don't worry, I don't think you would. I hope not anyway, haha.
You do make a great and very compelling argument for me going to see this in theaters so I'll definitely think about it (and no, I was too young or maybe not even alive when the Donner movies were in theaters, I caught them all on tv). I think the thing is that despite how good the MoS trailers look, I'm not feeling very excited for it and I'm not one of those who loves Nolan enough to forgive the fact that watching his work often gives me a headache (I still, still don't understand either The Prestige or Inception). I know Nolan didn't write the whole movie (wait, he didn't, right?) so maybe I shouldn't worry about that. I'm on the fence but I'll at least catch it in the discount cinemas if nothing else. Or maybe wait to see how the word of mouth is before coughing up the price of a regular ticket while I'm unemployed, ugh.